The bitterness that comes from not forgiving others and not forgiving ourselves is truly rancid fruit. I appreciate all your accumulated wisdom and thoughts about a multiplicity of subjects, Russ. You enrich our lives.
Should you forgive yourself or should you repent? Repentance would be a better approach to handling yourself when your kids falls off the seesaw and breaks their front teeth because of your inattention. For all Abrahamic religions, repentance includes the idea of changing your future behaviour.
I'm not a religious scholar, but I believe only the jews are required to apologize and attempt restitution as part of the repentance process, as compared with the Christian and Muslim repentance process.
I think it is far easier to forgive someone who has repented than one who has not.
The basic text of Alcoholics Anonymous captures well the idea of amor fati in the personal story beginning on Page 407 of the 4th edition entitled "Acceptance was the Answer". Later, on page 417, I read these iconic words: "And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing, or situation - some fact of my life - unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing, happens in God's world by mistake."
One other reference I saw while streaming "A Good Person" on Friday night with my wife: Morgan Freeman, playing a recovering addict, shares a saying tattooed on his arm with the character played by Florence Pugh. That saying is none other than "amor fati".
I recommend this movie, which is chock full of opportunities for acceptance.
Thank you for this thoughtful article. I agree that forgiveness is better than vengeance or harboring corrosive anger. Justice is still important, of course, but it's a different matter. It reminds me of what I said at the sentencing hearing for the person who fatally hit my 7-year-old son, Vincent, with her car about three years ago.
"Whenever any of us face tragedy or adversity, we have a choice. We can allow tragedy to consume us permanently, or we can choose a better path forward. You can learn to live with your grief and regret while—at the same time—rededicating your life to a greater sense of meaning and purpose.
"Regardless of what this court decides, I—as the father of this amazing little boy who inspired so many people—ask that you dedicate the rest of your life to helping those in need. Doing so will, in the tradition of Saint Vincent de Paul, honor my son’s legacy of bringing light and life to others.
"Right now for me, forgiveness is an intellectual, conscious decision that I have to make every day. With time and God’s grace, forgiveness will become more natural. We continue to hold you and your family in our thoughts and our prayers."
A little while ago I heard some parenting advice that I needed to hear. I cannot remember the source, and I doubt it was original to them. Words are that way.
The advice was this: when something bad has happened that you could have prevented, we have not one feeling but two.
The first feeling is regret: the desire that you had done differently; the wish that the outcome had been different.
The second feeling is guilt: that your regret is culpability. That your regret means you should suffer.
We conflate these feelings and words frequently, but they are different. Both are useful, both have a role to play, but those roles are distinct.
Regret pushes us to consider our role in what happened. What our options were. What we thought at the time. What we can do differently next time. Note that blame isn't necessary here - perhaps what happened was entirely someone else's fault, but we could have set up the situation differently or acted differently and prevented the harm. Regret is useful to pick up, listen to, draw conclusions, and then set down. Regret is the realm of the postmortem, of the retrospective, of the accident report. Our society has benefitted strongly from regret - provided we set it down when we're done.
Guilt pushes us to consider our motivations in what happened. Perhaps we felt the rush of pleasure from being cruel - or perhaps we simply are alive when others have died. Guilt is important because it provides a feeling we remember next time, but guilt interferes with our ability to productively work through regret. Forgiveness enables us to set down guilt and listen to regret. And then, in turn, to set regret down as well. And move on.
Thought provoking as usual. I’ve listened to Russ for 15 years or so and read his book on Adam Smith. I sit at Roberts feet in a learning mode. He’s made my life more understandable. Do I remember my future? I believe I do with Russ’s guidance. At 83, I now look forward to my comforting dogs.
I was about to post a comment on this article. But I couldn't improve on what Gary says here. I also have listened to Russ since he began Econtalk. And I'm 81. Russ, you impress octogenarians.
I listened to the talk given by Yael Shy and I think there is a subtlety around forgiveness in the Joseph story that she passes over in order to maintain her focus on (a particular understanding of) forgiveness. I wrote about this in a recent post: https://danehrenkrantz.substack.com/p/is-there-a-difference-between-forgiveness
All the world's blessings to Iris Haim. Her choice and her family's choice to stop the suffering of their loss from going any further, from damaging the lives of the soldiers involved acts as a true testament to the strength of the human spirit and the power of forgiveness. Thank you Iris Haim, you have in this act also touched my life by shining a light on a path that I too will endeavor to follow.
The bitterness that comes from not forgiving others and not forgiving ourselves is truly rancid fruit. I appreciate all your accumulated wisdom and thoughts about a multiplicity of subjects, Russ. You enrich our lives.
Should you forgive yourself or should you repent? Repentance would be a better approach to handling yourself when your kids falls off the seesaw and breaks their front teeth because of your inattention. For all Abrahamic religions, repentance includes the idea of changing your future behaviour.
I'm not a religious scholar, but I believe only the jews are required to apologize and attempt restitution as part of the repentance process, as compared with the Christian and Muslim repentance process.
I think it is far easier to forgive someone who has repented than one who has not.
The basic text of Alcoholics Anonymous captures well the idea of amor fati in the personal story beginning on Page 407 of the 4th edition entitled "Acceptance was the Answer". Later, on page 417, I read these iconic words: "And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing, or situation - some fact of my life - unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing, happens in God's world by mistake."
One other reference I saw while streaming "A Good Person" on Friday night with my wife: Morgan Freeman, playing a recovering addict, shares a saying tattooed on his arm with the character played by Florence Pugh. That saying is none other than "amor fati".
I recommend this movie, which is chock full of opportunities for acceptance.
Thank you for this thoughtful article. I agree that forgiveness is better than vengeance or harboring corrosive anger. Justice is still important, of course, but it's a different matter. It reminds me of what I said at the sentencing hearing for the person who fatally hit my 7-year-old son, Vincent, with her car about three years ago.
"Whenever any of us face tragedy or adversity, we have a choice. We can allow tragedy to consume us permanently, or we can choose a better path forward. You can learn to live with your grief and regret while—at the same time—rededicating your life to a greater sense of meaning and purpose.
"Regardless of what this court decides, I—as the father of this amazing little boy who inspired so many people—ask that you dedicate the rest of your life to helping those in need. Doing so will, in the tradition of Saint Vincent de Paul, honor my son’s legacy of bringing light and life to others.
"Right now for me, forgiveness is an intellectual, conscious decision that I have to make every day. With time and God’s grace, forgiveness will become more natural. We continue to hold you and your family in our thoughts and our prayers."
A little while ago I heard some parenting advice that I needed to hear. I cannot remember the source, and I doubt it was original to them. Words are that way.
The advice was this: when something bad has happened that you could have prevented, we have not one feeling but two.
The first feeling is regret: the desire that you had done differently; the wish that the outcome had been different.
The second feeling is guilt: that your regret is culpability. That your regret means you should suffer.
We conflate these feelings and words frequently, but they are different. Both are useful, both have a role to play, but those roles are distinct.
Regret pushes us to consider our role in what happened. What our options were. What we thought at the time. What we can do differently next time. Note that blame isn't necessary here - perhaps what happened was entirely someone else's fault, but we could have set up the situation differently or acted differently and prevented the harm. Regret is useful to pick up, listen to, draw conclusions, and then set down. Regret is the realm of the postmortem, of the retrospective, of the accident report. Our society has benefitted strongly from regret - provided we set it down when we're done.
Guilt pushes us to consider our motivations in what happened. Perhaps we felt the rush of pleasure from being cruel - or perhaps we simply are alive when others have died. Guilt is important because it provides a feeling we remember next time, but guilt interferes with our ability to productively work through regret. Forgiveness enables us to set down guilt and listen to regret. And then, in turn, to set regret down as well. And move on.
Wonderful piece, Russ.
Thought provoking as usual. I’ve listened to Russ for 15 years or so and read his book on Adam Smith. I sit at Roberts feet in a learning mode. He’s made my life more understandable. Do I remember my future? I believe I do with Russ’s guidance. At 83, I now look forward to my comforting dogs.
I was about to post a comment on this article. But I couldn't improve on what Gary says here. I also have listened to Russ since he began Econtalk. And I'm 81. Russ, you impress octogenarians.
I listened to the talk given by Yael Shy and I think there is a subtlety around forgiveness in the Joseph story that she passes over in order to maintain her focus on (a particular understanding of) forgiveness. I wrote about this in a recent post: https://danehrenkrantz.substack.com/p/is-there-a-difference-between-forgiveness
Beautiful essay. I am often touched by your words and insights. Thank you for your uplifting example and thoughtful approach to life and to faith.
All the world's blessings to Iris Haim. Her choice and her family's choice to stop the suffering of their loss from going any further, from damaging the lives of the soldiers involved acts as a true testament to the strength of the human spirit and the power of forgiveness. Thank you Iris Haim, you have in this act also touched my life by shining a light on a path that I too will endeavor to follow.
Thank you Russ for your dvar Torah. Timely and spot on. I always look forward to your thought.
Esau sold his inheritance because he did not expect his brother to live to inherit.
Their mother recognized this and saying leave quickly.
What inheritance? What was inherited? Land goods? Etc.
Or love of?
Esau received the inheritance he requested from his father and became a very wealthy man.
Through his own efforts.
A truly lovely essay. Bless you and your family. Stay safe.